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Headline: Treaty of Waitangi: What was lost

In total 1122 comments were made and 28039 votes were cast. So what is the crowd saying?

Crowd favourite

96% of people agree "So, if we accept that this view of our history is accurate, my question to Maori is: what would need to happen to recompense the wrong? To the point where the sense of grievance goes away?

 I am seriously interested in the answer. What would put it right?"

Comment TotalPositiveNegativeName
And weve paid for it ever since and will continue to pay for it until the treaty settlements are finished. Maori need to focus on the future and not the past. Until they do we will never move forward as a country.26931748JB2
Interesting from an historical perspective but very heavy on guilt factor. The story continually talks about what Maori lost but at no stage talks about what they gained since.

Its also interesting that the Maori population is now 15 times what it was in 1896.
20925041Gonzo, Esq.
Irrelevant to the current population. Live in the now and make the most of what you have. Be the master of your own destiny and stop blaming history. Look at the guy who just won the pie award.19522732tbaggybag
It was a fair price at the time. History  people.  move on !19023646DunnowhoIam
They didnt lose anything to be clear. They sold/ traded it, ignorantly or not.18723750CBS
Who did Maori purchase the land off when they so called, arrived in New Zealand??? And why has evidence of pre Maori settlement been covered up??
18722235EyeSpy .
So, if we accept that this view of our history is accurate, my question to Maori is: what would need to happen to recompense the wrong? To the point where the sense of grievance goes away?

 I am seriously interested in the answer. What would put it right?
1671747RockyJ
Absolutely agree. its the way the world has worked for the past two hundred thousand years, the weak tribe (either in numbers or weoponry) gets beaten by the stronger tribe,( in this case the British) the weaker tribe either is wiped out or gets assimilated into the stronger tribe, together they form a stronger hybrid tribe and move on to bigger and better things, thats how civilisation has developed over countless millennia. when seen against this backdrop, what the British did was totally in tune(rightly or wrongly) with how mankind had behaved for the last two hundred thousand years. Should we relitigate every one of the millions of conflicts that happened in those times. Im Scottish, we got beaten up by the English for centuries, tho we fought bravely and had a few wins along the way, but that was then, and this is now. Im not claiming that my current situation..ie earning less than the average wage is due to British domination of 200 years ago, no, its down to me cos i didnt study hard enough at school and left early, my fault!...11913213lornz
âThe schools and hospitals never materialisedâThats not 1. The South Island is full of schools and hospitals - theres usually at least one in every town. Not to mention higher education and wider healthcare. 10613024WinstonSmith
Point 1.  Yes, there were some serious injustices done to Maori and these have been or should be addressed.

Point 2.  In many cases however, Maori ought not be blaming todays NZers of European descent for the loss of their land.  Instead, they should be blaming their own ancestors for voluntarily selling it for (by todays reckoning) a song.   There is blame on both sides, something often forgotten in the quest for cultural sensitivity.

Point 3.  Even where land was siezed by the crown and compensated for at the going rate, there can be no come-back... any more than my grandchildren will be able to claim compensation if my own property was taken under the relevant legislation for public works and I was compensated according to current property values.   This is the law of the land and the Treaty was a recognition that Maori would fall under that law.

Point 4.  Everyone has to acknowledge that in 2018, nobody alive today was responsible for any of the crimes or misdeeds of the past and thus should not be held accountable (fiscally or otherwise) for those actions.  If we do not draw a line in the sand and move forwards, there will never be cultural harmony in New Zealand.  When I first arrived here in 1977 (yes, Im an import), I was overwhelmed by the one-ness of the Kiwi population.  Everyone, regardless of their skin-colour or ancestry, considered themselves a kiwi.  Not so today.   The nation is becoming divided by a culture of entitlement based on race.   We may have gained many things, but the loss of this one people aspect of NZ is the saddest thing Ive seen in the 40 years Ive been here.
991056Aardvark
You are right about the blackberry but wrong about it all being covered with forests and birds . This is the noble savage hypothesis all over that indigenous cultures looked after the land and animals....they didnt...9411824I wish I
Maori did not own the land,they used it. They themselved admit they had no concept of land ownership.8797103.14159
How about thanks for modern living!! while the rest of the world had harnessed the power of intelligence and technology the maori were using sticks and stone for tools woven flax and basic skins for clothes, they were barely a step away from cavemen that had a basic level of agriculture.

Compare the maori of 1800 to the Romans of 200bc the English of 1000ad or any European country at the same time, and honestly tell me that they didnt need help to move into the modern world
829614upset223
So what did they do with the moa
82919russell75
I wasnt brought here, I was born here. No European ties, never been there. I identify solely as a New Zealander, and never stole anything from anyone. I Dont owe nothing to no one. 80811Howie seeit.
Another 7 billion dollars in compensation778912akkadian
Well said grifter!7510227GazzaOlive
Sorry but I find it now totally invalid to attempt to bring a situation that existed in the 1830s into present day life in NZ and to continue to extrapolate past injustices going forward. Most of Europe has a history of conquest, redefined countries, and borders, and to the present day that is continuing, with Russia having annexed the Crimea, for example, or China claiming Taiwan and Hong Kong, Assads regime ruthlessly killing many of its people, who have had to flee their country.
NZ history has its own conflict, but conveniently the genocide and near extinction of the Moriori for example is hardly ever mentioned.
Maori were predominantly hunter gatherers back then, often transient according to the constraints of a food source, and engaged in frequent acts of aggression with neighbouring tribal groups, with frequent slaughter and occupation of others territory. Ownership of land was not a widespread concept, the resources in a given area were exploited, often exhausted  and then the land and settlements were abandoned, as the area could no longer sustain the population group.
The land itself had little value, it was primarily the surrounding resources that were valued, such as available food, shellfish etc. It is why Maori population was concentrated in coastal regions.
Not only is no one alive in NZ today that is responsible for what happened back then, but ultimately we all in NZ are subservient to the crown in some way or other. We use motorways, public facilities, National Parks, and benefit from the provision of education, health services, social welfare, security through the police and justice system, the list is endless almost. These are all collective benefits of being a New Zealander. There is plenty of available alternatives in the world today as to where to live. For example, the more remote areas of the  highlands of Papua New Guinea may appeal to some, but not many, for good reason. Living there, is perhaps a bit of a parallel to early Maori occupied NZ. It is still a hunter gatherer society, and survival is a constant harsh prospect, health services hardly exist at all and there is a high level of malnutrition.
On that point, health, this article seems to blame Europeans for decimation of the Maori population for disease. In that era, small pox still existed, as did polio, diptheria, tetanus, TB, whooping cough, and influenza. Sexually transmitted diseases were rife (though they were spared HIV), and all manner of waterborne diseases were prevalent, all of which nobody had any immunity to. People died in their thousands, and millions globally. Not just Maori, although influenza may have taken an increased toll.
So I think what I am saying is we have to put history into a level of perspective, especially spanning back 180 years. In every generation, there are winners and losers. People lose their lot frequently through misadventure, war, such as we see in Syria. Ill health, bankruptcy, divorce, gambling, acts of god such as floods etc etc.  Few families manage to hang on to their assets much past two generations globally, and millionaires come and go.
Grieving what might have been, before our lives, is purely nonsensical and without doubt that sense of entitlement is now largely misplaced. Successive governments have in my view gone more than enough in that direction, attempting to right the wrongs of the past. The beneficiaries of some of those outcomes are often, in truth, distorted as to their level of entitlement to settlements, with the heirarchy at the top of Maoridom benefiting excessively, and the less fortunate beneath them again missing out. Greed by a few appears to trump the needy just about always unfortunately.
728513critique
And probably laughed at the stupid Europeans giving them such a great deal!708919GazzaOlive

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